SEASON 07 | EPISODE 02

After John Stewart, a Florida man charged with–but never prosecuted for–the death of his girlfriend's 15-month old son reaches out to Andrea to tell her she’s all wrong about his case Andrea goes on a deep dive to find out what really happened to Knowellan Kelly, the baby who lost his life ten years ago. John–who was featured in Take Care of Maya–claims that doctors and investigators falsely accused him: but the truth turns out to be much more complicated.

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Detective: So you know him well enough.

Danake: Okay. Maybe I'm a bad mom for letting my boyfriend babysit my kids. I understand. I'm sorry. I apologize. It's my fault that Nolan is dead.

Detective: That is not what we are saying. Hey, no, it is the fact that we have Baby Nolan. You are his mother. You are his caregiver. You are his voice.

Somebody needs to stand up for Nolan.

Danake: What do you want me to say?

Detective: We want you

Danake: to, yes. I think he did it. I think he's capable of it. I don't know that I don't know him that well. Obviously I don't, he's never shown any signs of being that type of person in front of me.

Andrea: What happened to Nolan Kelly? This is a question that is lingered for a decade now.

John Stewart, a man who'd been dating Nolan's mother Danica for five months at the time of his death. Was originally charged with his murder, [00:01:00] but John was never prosecuted and neither was anyone else. This case is a tragedy and there was a grave injustice here, but much of the media coverage about this case has focused not on the fact that a baby was murdered and no one was held accountable, but on the alleged injustice done to John, and this too was the focus of John's email to me last July, which began.

Dear Misguided, wannabe journalist, and detailed a litany of ways in which he felt he'd been victimized by Dr. Sally Smith. And in turn, by my reporting on the case. John is not one to mince words as you'll hear, but I was intrigued by his email. I'd mentioned his case only briefly on the show, but John was upset at my framing of Sally Smith, who he claimed had lied about his case.

I try never to lose sight of the fact that I'm reporting on real people and their real lives on this show, and if I ever hear directly from someone I've talked about, I think I owe it to them to listen. And I was curious about this case. A child had been [00:02:00] murdered and all these years later there seemed to be so much uncertainty about what exactly happened.

I was also increasingly aware of the deluge of media stories about alleged instances of wrongful accusations of abusive head trauma. So I figured maybe the universe was giving me a nudge. We responded to John and told him that we'd be happy to look over any documentation he wanted to send along, and happy to speak with him to get his side of the story.

I didn't actually think he'd agree, but I was wrong

to start with. Why don't you just

tell me why you reached out to me? What was the impetus for that?

John: Well, I was actually watching Dateline and uh, show about Dr. Vega being involved. Came on and I was like, you know, I started, so I started, I started thinking about some things, you know, in the [00:03:00] past and everything.

And, uh, so I contacted Chat, GPT, and, uh, so then I asked them, you know, about my case in particular, chat, GPT. And it brought up your podcast. So I looked at it, listened to it, and saw that, uh, I felt that you were basically defending Sally Smith erroneously, and I needed to, um, put it out there that Sally Smith is I, I call her malpractice shey.

She, uh, she's a doctor. She's supposed to do no harm, and she has done more harm to so many people. It's mind boggling. But we're not gonna talk about any other cases. We're just gonna talk about mine in particular and what she's done to my daughter especially, and, um, and, uh, things like that. So, uh, yeah, so that's, that's why I reached out to y'all.

'cause I didn't feel that, uh, that it was right.

Andrea: It felt [00:04:00] like the right thing to do to hear John out, and it was a conversation that I genuinely wanted to have. John was offering me a chance to ask the questions I wish my fellow journalists would ask. In these cases, you say the doctors lied about you, so what did they lie about exactly?

We presume innocence in our legal system, the bar for conviction is high beyond a reasonable doubt. The onus is not on the accused to prove that they didn't do the crime, but in the court of public opinion, the alleged abusers are the ones making an accusation. If you are going to claim a doctor falsely accused you of abuse, that's a serious claim that has serious impact.

Undermining public. Trust in doctors unnecessarily causes a myriad of problems that can escalate into a full on public health crisis. Measles outbreaks, anyone. John was making some big claims about Dr. Sally Smith, and I was listening, but I was also going to have some questions of my own.[00:05:00]

People believe their eyes. That's something that is so central to this topic because we do believe the people that we love when they're telling us something. If we didn't, you could never make it through your day. I'm Andrea Dunlop, and this is, nobody Should Believe me.

Act 1

Andrea: Danica Crawford was a mother of four young children with a troubled history. Both she and her children's father, Chris Kelly, had struggled with addiction  and been in and out of jail. Danica had a tumultuous but tight-knit relationship with her family of origin, and at the time she met John Stewart. She was living with her father Larry, in a house adjacent to her mother and a number of other family members.

Her father, Larry, regularly helped out with her kids while she struggled to get cleaned. Things eventually fell apart between Danica and Chris after their youngest child. Nolan was [00:06:00] born in July of 2015 and when Nolan was almost a year old, Danica met John Stewart.

Detective: How did you meet this? How did you meet John?

Danake: I met John on Plenty of Fish.

Detective: Okay. Is he the only guy you've met on Plenty Of Fish?

Danake: Mm-hmm.

Detective: Okay.

Danake: The only guy I've ever met off the internet, I was with my kid's father for eight years.

Andrea: This is Danica talking with a detective.

Detective: Did he contact you or did you contact him?

Danake: Yeah, he contacted me.

Detective: Okay. And then obviously you guys agreed to meet on July 21st.

Danake: Yes.

Detective: Where'd you meet at?

Danake: Um, our first date was at Riverwalk. It was, uh, kind of a play date. He brought his daughter. I took my kids. They played on the playground and we just kind of sat on a bench and, you know, talked. It was a date. Okay.

Detective: How did he seem then?

Danake: He seemed, I mean, to be honest with you, I haven't had, I don't have a very good track record, you know what I mean?

Detective: Okay.

Danake: I [00:07:00] dropped outta high school. And started doing pills and getting in trouble, and I met my kid's father and we were pretty much inseparable from day one and we kind of got together and just continued to make the same mistakes with each other and. You know, I've, I've been in my fair share of trouble.

He's been in his, and then it was all pretty much because of, you know, the pills and then eventually, December 1st, 2000 and, uh, 14 was the first day that I took methadone at the park clinic, and I've pretty much been off of everything. Ever since then,

Detective: ever relapsed at all, or

Danake: No.

Detective: Been a couple times or once or twice?

No. No, that's good.

Danake: I [00:08:00] mean,

Detective: that's very good.

Danake: I was, I mean, that I, I went through the pills, you know, as high as I could go, as many as I could go, and it eventually got to the point where all of a sudden there's, everybody's doing heroin, you know, so I obviously transferred from pills to heroin and then.

Birthday was the first day I ever took methadone, and everybody told me, you know, everybody that had experience with the meth methadone program told me, you know, you'll, you'll try and do it once or twice, you know, in the first week or two of you taking your methadone, but eventually, you know that first or second or third time, however many, you know, depending on your mindset, you'll realize that, you know, the methadone really does work in blocking the effect.

Of opiates and it did. And then that's when I realized that anything from here on out, as long as I'm on the methadone, any, anything that I do from here on out is pointless. And that's when I, [00:09:00] you know, I've been just taking care of my kids, moving with my dad and taking care of my kids and, you know, dealing with their father, being in prison.

And doing everything by myself. Then I, you know, decided that I wanted to, you know, after some conversations, you know, between me and my kid's father, I realized, you know, early July, that's when I realized that I didn't think that things were gonna work out between me and him.

Andrea: Danica was trying to pull her life together, but addiction is a tough road, and she was definitely still vulnerable.

Even more vulnerable were her four kids who were all under the age of seven when she met John. I can't say I understand the choice to bring your kids on a first date, but according to Danica, when she met John, he seemed solid.

Danake: John messaged me, I could tell just from the first sentence in the message that he [00:10:00] actually took the time and read my profile and contacted me and, you know, wanted to talk more about me than, you know, Hey, what's up?

You wanna meet up? You know, so

Detective: basically truly seemed interesting.

Danake: Yeah. And then when I got to, that's, that's why I bring up my past when I got to know John and you know, I told him on Plenty of Fish, you know, I told him the truth. I said. I, I had a drug problem. I've been on methadone since December and I have four kids and you know, I didn't want to meet somebody and bombard them

Larry: right.

Danake: With all of the things that I have going on with me. You know, I got four kids. I'm on methadone, I'm on probation, and my kids' father is in prison. You know, I told him, and you know, I kind of told him a little bit about myself too. I'm like, you know, I'm not. A little prissy little, you know, I have makeup poy toy, you know, that's not the type of girl that I am, and if that's what you're looking for, then you know, maybe we're not as compatible as we seem like we are.[00:11:00]

He was fine with all of that. And then he told me about himself and. He's, you know, Marine and massage therapist and bachelor's in, you know, anthropology and a master's in Florida studies. And he's like telling me all these things that are like nobody that I've ever met before. You know, nobody that I've ever felt like I had a chance with.

And you know, and then here he is interested in me and it is like I latched onto it. That's exactly, honestly, that's exactly what I did.

Detective: And then when, July 21st, when you guys had your date, you were living still your grandpa's house?

Danake: Yes, my dad's house.

Detective: Okay. From July 21st, where did it go from there? I mean,

Danake: um, well, I, we dated and hung out and, um, I didn't start living with him.

You know, I, I had spent the night at his house a couple of [00:12:00] times. He had majority custody of his daughter. I mean, like four out of seven nights a week she was with him.

Larry: Mm-hmm.

Danake: And it was kind of perfect because I always had my kids. And it was very, very rarely, I mean, once a year, very rarely that I ever went anywhere and did anything that didn't involve bringing my kids along.

You know, if that's, if like, I didn't, I don't go to the clubs. I don't go out to bars. I don't drink. I don't have a lot of friends. I have my family and I have my, you know, lifelong friends, people that I've known since sixth grade. Rachel, I've known her since I was 11 years old. You know, that's what I did.

So I started spending a lot of time with him and he started helping me out. He would, uh, drive me to get my medicine when I needed it, and he would drive me to work when I needed a ride. You know, did [00:13:00] anything that I asked of him. He played t-ball with my, you know, with my son. He paid to, he registered, he paid to register him for t-ball for the season that just ended and, you know, taught him a, a week before kindergarten started.

My son didn't, you know, wasn't doing very well with his ABCs. He taught him how to say his alphabet and recognize letters and learn, you know, taught him his numbers and it was just like, honestly, a fairytale. That's what it was. It was like nobody that I had ever been around, not even people in my family.

It was like he was completely different than every, anybody and everybody I had ever interacted with.

Andrea: John also had a lot to say about his positive influence on Danica's kids. And just a note here that we've censored the names of the other children in this story to protect their privacy.

John: Uh, I got him enrolled in baseball when he was, uh, when he was under his grandfather's, uh, sole care basically.

Um, he was sitting in front of a computer eating junk food, um, drinking soda constantly, and [00:14:00] he weighed 110 pounds when I met him. And then, uh, I got him enrolled in baseball. I took it, well first what I did is I took them all to baseball games, uh, Tropicana Field for the raise. I had season and tickets at the time and um, I had gone to every game that season and I would get extra bonus tickets 'cause I'm a veteran.

So anytime that popped up. I would bring anybody and everybody. So I ended up bringing Danica all the kids and everything like that and really liked baseball. So I got him enrolled in baseball. We got him enrolled in T-ball, bought him a ba, bat glove, all that stuff. And uh, he started playing and I played with him every day.

I taught him his ABCs, his one two threes. He was about two weeks away from going to school. And, um, I was like, uh, hey, sing the, a BBC song. And he was like, he didn't know it. And I was like, oh, okay, no worries my man. You know, uh, I'll, I'll help you out with that. And, uh, and so every day we practice and. On [00:15:00] his first day of kindergarten, he was one of the kids that was able to recite all ABCs and uh, got to 20 and counting as well.

Andrea: Although John May have seemed like a knight in shining armor at first swooping in to be a stabilizing force in danica's life and a father figure to her kids, they still didn't really know each other and their relationship moved at warp speed.

Detective: You move

Danake: in. I started spending the night at his house regularly about three months ago.

Okay. I mean, to the point where it was like, okay, take majority of my stuff over there, because it was just easier to be there with him because he was taking me to do everything. You know, he took me every morning before 11. I have to get, they have set schedules at the clinic. I have to be there Monday through Friday before 11 and before 10 on Saturdays and Sundays.

And because he was the one driving me everywhere, it was more convenient to be there with him. And the kids had their room and [00:16:00] beds and toys and movies and they has, he has a fenced in yard. They could play outside, you know, and they had the, he had has dogs that the kids loved.

Detective: How, how was he towards you?

Danake: He was great towards me

Detective: all the time.

Danake: I mean,

Detective: he is always in a good mood. He's,

Danake: we've gotten into, I mean, arguments sometimes. He always liked to compare his daughter to my kids. You know what I mean? Like he, he felt like X at three years old, like she was just exceptional and completely advanced for her age.

You know, my, my daughter can tell you the definition of archeology. She can tell you the definition of anthropology. She can say her alphabets and her numbers, and it was always a comparison to my kids.

Detective: I think that would cause an argument with you.

Danake: I mean, exactly. I mean, that's, that would make you kind of feel like.

Yeah. Like,

Detective: and where did

Danake: those leave? Are you telling me that my, you know, that's how I felt sometimes. And I mean, there's a [00:17:00] lot of instances where I would just brush it under the rug, but if it ever did turn into an argument, that's where it went. It went to him comparing his kid to my kids. But it was never more than just arguing and it was never, you know, he was always very insistent that it wasn't in front of the kids.

You know, I don't, we're not gonna argue in front of my daughter. We're not gonna argue in front of your kids. And he would always say, I know your kids are used to it, but my daughter's not used to it. And my family is a very loud family, you know, and we're not yelling and screaming and fighting all the time, but it's not out of the norm for us to get into, you know, have a few words with each other and you know, the kids be in the next room and hear us, you know, or, you know, throw a few words at each other and then be in the living room while we're standing in the hallway.

It's just not out of the norm, but it. His daughter, apparently, from the way he made it seem to me she's always been sheltered and you know, you don't, she people don't have never argued in front of her. She's never seen people get in [00:18:00] fights and you know, like you never wanted it done in front of the kids.

Andrea: Merging families is complicated under the best of circumstances, and these were definitely not the best of circumstances as Danica's Father Larry explained to the police

Larry: for the simple reason I did not know him. And, and speaking very straightforward, honestly, with you because of Danica's behavior and lifestyle over the last six years with the kids.

Uh, I just pretty much suspect of anybody and don't much care for a friend. I don't much care for Chris. He's a deadbeat dad. Okay? But. Uh, John and I butted heads twice in my house, but both times was over me. Chastising Danica over not helping me keep the house clean and he thought he was gonna tell me not to.

And that's so John and I, John and I tolerated each other

Andrea: and according to John, the mistrust with Larry was mutual

John: one time. You know? So my big thing when, when I had [00:19:00] back then was I didn't want anybody to yell and scream in front of her or fight or anything like that. 'cause her mom and I did that and I didn't like it.

And we, her mom and I grew up in an environment like that and I tried to, you know, tried to stop it and, you know, so when I got with Danica, I was like, please, no yelling or anything in front of, and, and Danica mentions that in her, in her interviews and her reports and everything like that. And, um, so Larry starts yelling at Danica about how she's a lazy piece of shit.

She doesn't do this, she doesn't do that, and all this other stuff. And all the other kids are running around and everything like that. And I'm in the other room. And they're in the living room and he's yelling at her and I'm in Danica's room and I come out and I'm like, Hey Larry, can you do me a favor?

Just since here, you know, I'm not telling you not to yell at your daughter. Just please don't curse and say the stuff that you're saying in front of my daughter. And he's like, fuck you, motherfucker. Get outta my house. How dare you tell me what I can do and can't do in my own [00:20:00] fucking place? And I'm like, dude.

Bro, I'm just, I'm, I'm literally, I'm like, I'm like, uh, you got it wrong. I'm just trying to freaking, you know, I, I'm not telling you what to do. I'm just trying. And he keeps yelling at me. So I fucking snapped out and I'm like, look, motherfucker freaking, I pull up my sleeve and I'm like, I'm a US Marine.

I'll fucking end you motherfucker. Alls I asked was for you to be civil and polite and not be a piece of shit in front of my fucking daughter. And now you're making me fucking yell in front of my daughter too. And I took, take the up and got in the car and left. And the next day he comes up to me, he apologized, he shook my hand and he is like, I shouldn't have done that.

I know you weren't trying to tell me what to do, you know, but in the heat of the moment, I got all upset and blah, blah, blah, blah. And then we smoked a joint and started getting out on the back patio.

Andrea: John claims that he wanted to shield his daughter from tension, but in reality, his three-year-old had already witnessed plenty of conflict and even violence in his home.

Detective: We're going to like his history with relationships with you. Like how, [00:21:00] how some of those other relationships ended?

Danake: Uh, yeah.

Detective: What did he describe that

Danake: He told me about his mother, and he basically described that to me as some kind of conspiracy plot where she wanted custody of, and she knew that the only way she would be able to get it is if she provoked him.

And hitting her so that she could throw him into jail, and that she had previously discussed this, some big extravagant plan. With one of her friends that was a wife to a friend of his, that's how he described it to me.

Andrea: One of the things that John took issue with from my original reporting on his case was that I mentioned that he had a history of domestic violence in one of his lengthy email, miss.

John gave me a similar narrative about his ex using the police [00:22:00] against him. Here he is explaining it to me in our interview.

John: Here's what I'll say about with Hearn freaking, she is, she's the mother of my child. She's a good woman overall, but we've had issues and disagreements and she, um, she uses the police to get her way.

And in the first incident that we had. She called the police and told them initially, in her initial report, she told them that I just freaked out o over a fight over weed, which, you know, uh, that sounds so logical. Right. Um, and, uh, and just attacked her and, you know. And choked her and beat her when in reality I freaking was up with my daughter.

I had my daughter playing in her playpen. I went to the front of the house, smoked some weed, came back out, was taking care of my [00:23:00] daughter, just thought that I'd smoked all the weed. So she got into a fight with me about that, and she picked up and I told her, I was like, can you just put in, in her pa, in her, you know, in her crib, in her room, and we can argue and do whatever.

And she punched me in the face, took a, put her into her room, came back outside into the living room, and she freaking hit me again. And that's when I struck her back. So I do not, I do not condone violence to women, but. At the same time after you've been struck twice in front, once in front of your daughter, and she had plenty of time to leave, she could have left the house, let her mery way, freaking did whatever she could have, but she chose to stay there and hit me again.

And I'm not justifying or excusing my actions, I should not have done what I did. But that is, that is what happened.

Andrea: John sent me many, many [00:24:00] emails before this interview happened and many since. In several of them, he details how his ex. Whose name we've bleeped and won't be using was out to get him. He claims, as you just heard, that she started this altercation and that while he should have walked away, he wrote in one email, many would argue I had the right to defend myself in my own home.

John also followed up in a separate email to let me know that his ex was six feet tall and had been a collegiate athlete while John is only five 10 and had suffered a litany of injuries sustained in a series of accidents. So I guess factor that in if you find it relevant. The police reports about the incident.

John describes paint a dramatically different picture detailing how the victim had been found with abrasions on her throat and face, and lacerations on the side of her mouth. According to the report, John had thrown her to the bed and choked her to the point that she couldn't breathe. When she tried to fight back, John punched her in the mouth.

Only letting up at the side of blood on her face. This was also [00:25:00] allegedly not the first instance of battery and it wouldn't be the last. This appears to have been a pattern with John and his ex said that she mainly called the police because she knew her family would be mad if she didn't. Police on the scene.

Read John his Miranda rights and he reportedly told officers she hit me, I want a lawyer. No one ended up pressing charges, but his ex filed a restraining order against him. Again, not for the last time. Danica didn't know all of these details when she was dating John, and from what she could tell, the exes appeared to be on pretty good terms.

They even all went trick or treating together. Danica and John moved fast, but a few months in the cracks were starting to show.

Act 2

Danake: I didn't need John as much as I did. I would've gone my own way, but it got to the point where I was dependent on him and it [00:26:00] wasn't anything physical or emotional, you know? I love Johnny as a friend, as a person, but us, our personalities together constantly in a relationship. It just wasn't working out. I knew that.

I don't think he did. I knew that, and like I said, I honestly was waiting and I mean. I don't wanna sound like I was just using him, but I knew I, I had a plan, I had goals set up, and I knew that in the timeframe that I had to do them and get them done, I felt like by February of, or March of next year, I would've been stable enough with myself to where I didn't need John for everything the way that I did, the way that I do.

You know, I, my mom, you know, told me that as soon as I got my license back, she was gonna give me her Jeep that was paid off and then I was in exchange, was gonna give her $2,000 back for my tax return so she could put [00:27:00] down a payment for a vehicle. And at that point I would have my own car to get back and forth from work.

I would be able to get back and forth from my medicine and I would be able to live with my father. Those were my goals. And, you know, just continue to go up from there, job wise, money, income wise. Until I got to the point where I could get my own place with my kids. That's what I was going to do until this,

Detective: how many.

What would you estimate? How many times do you think John watched your kids alone? Alone?

Danake: Well, just from the last, just from now until all the way back until Thanksgiving.

Detective: Right.

Danake: It's been six times. Six times.

Detective: So it's not like it's every single day.

Danake: No, it's not. My kids, the, the way we worked is I would sleep at his house.

We would get up in the morning, go get my [00:28:00] medicine, and then we sat at my dad's house all day, every single day. That's where we were all day. Every single day. We never went back to his house because my son goes to school right down the road from my father. And I wanted to be there before and after school and you know, sometimes my dad would keep the kids, my, my youngest son, well not, not my youngest, but they spent the night at my dad's house multiple times throughout each week.

Andrea: Larry would also later say that he thought Danica was more dependent on John than deeply in love. John had come on strong and quickly inserted himself into Danica's tenuous family situation, but according to John, he was helping her stay on the right track.

John: Danica was a good mother when she was sober, and that's when I was with her was when she was sober.

Um, I didn't know her when she was, you know, an addict and, um, [00:29:00] she was very upright and upfront with me from the beginning. About all the trials and tribulations that she went through. She let me know from the start, you know, that she had been, uh, clean, uh, for, since, uh, her son's birthday, December 1st, the previous year, and that she was working towards, you know, fixing her life.

She had broken up with her, uh, boyfriend who was the father of her four children. Um, he was in prison at the time. And she had broken up with him and she wanted to go on a different path in life. And, uh, and she let me know all this. And, you know, I went in, I went into this knowing this and, um, you know, I, I took her to get her medicine every day.

Uh, we, she, you know, Larry says all the time in all of his interviews that Danica was a lazy piece of shit and all this other like heinous stuff. About her [00:30:00] and maybe when she was an addict. Yeah, sure. But when she was sober, she kept that house clean. She kept Larry's plate, she cooked for him, she cooked for the kids, she took care of, she took care of everything there.

And she still came over to my place and we still took care, you know, helped each other take care of the kids at my place and everything like that. She was, you know, as far and I, I don't know now, I haven't talked to her in, um. The last time that I talked to her was, uh, right after the case was dismissed.

We talked on Facebook. 'cause prior to that, the court ordered that we weren't allowed to talk to each other. So once the case was dismissed, we talked one time and then that was it.

Andrea: But as Danica would eventually admit to the police when they pressed her with additional evidence, John wasn't such a great influence after all.

Detective: Correct? Yeah. And you're saying he's good for you? No problems, anything like that. You haven't had any problems since December of 2014, but yet in July you started testing [00:31:00] positive for methamphetamine, ecstasy, stuff like that. All right.

Danake: Mm-hmm.

Detective: So where you, where were you getting that from?

Danake: Different people

Detective: from him?

Danake: No,

Detective: never got a single thing from him.

Danake: He doesn't, I think I got him to do it with me once, and then he didn't want to do it again afterwards.

Detective: What did he do with you?

Danake: The ecstasy

Detective: Pill. Ecstasy?

Danake: Yeah.

Detective: So he did ecstasy with you once?

Danake: Mm-hmm.

Detective: Did he give you any pills of his, obviously he's got pills for his back, right?

Danake: No, he smokes weed.

Detective: He just smokes weed. Mm-hmm. That's it?

Danake: Yep. Did

Detective: you smoke weed with him?

Danake: I don't smoke weed.

Detective: Okay. But he did this ecstasy with him?

Danake: Yep.

Detective: Beyond that. No. Did you the ecstasy before you met him?

Danake: Yep.

Detective: So it was, you were already doing it.

Danake: Yeah.

Detective: So you weren't as clean as you say you were being?[00:32:00]

Danake: There was, when I first started the clinic, I was doing good for a couple of months and then I started hanging out with my friend Rachel, and she would get it and come over and hang out and we would do it. And it was a once or twice a month. And it was, went like that for about four or five months.

Detective: And that's the only thing.

You never gotten a single drug from him?

Danake: No.

Detective: Nothing.

Danake: No.

Detective: Not even a other than weed. If you got it at some point you said you don't smoke it, but other than weed, you never got a pill from him?

Danake: No,

Detective: he never. Did he ever take you to buy?

Danake: Yes.

Detective: And how many times has he done that?

Danake: A handful of times.

Detective: And he was okay with it?

Danake: No,

Detective: but he did it

Danake: right? Well, I, I mean, that's where the controlling thing comes in. You know, there was a [00:33:00] lot of things that I did that he didn't want me to do or didn't agree with. But if I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm a grownup, I'm gonna make choices. If I choose to do something, I'm gonna do it.

Detective: What about getting a job?

Danake: Him or me? Is

Detective: he him? Does he ever get a job? Oh, no. What about you?

Danake: I'm I work. He was all for that.

Detective: Okay. So he wants you to get a job.

Danake: Wanted you to, he's been trying to get a job

Detective: knowing that it's gonna put him more, taking care of your kids. Like he wanted you to get a job and be gone during the day. And

Danake: he was okay with this.

He didn't, he didn't so much want me to get a job. That was me. I wanted to get a job. That was my goal. He just,

Detective: and he had no problem with it?

Danake: No.

Detective: So like driving, driving you to work. Ah, it sucks. I'm tired of making this damn drive every day. Or you know, just some little quirks and stuff. Does he say when he is taking you to work?

Danake: No,

Detective: he's never shown any frustration

Danake: picking up, I've only been working the last month or two.

Detective: Right. Pick you driving.

And again, [00:34:00] he's going from a kid to now five kids.

Danake: He's never expressed, I mean,

Detective: to now five kids on his own

Danake: or he's always been. What is the word? He's always like, encouraged me. You know what I mean?

Detective: So he's all got never said any frustration with the fact that he's now with your kids.

Danake: Not to me,

Detective: that to who,

Danake: you know. I mean, I, I, I told, I told him what my goals were. Mm-hmm. And he was fine with that. He encouraged me, you know, and I told him, you know, he, he wanted to get a job on the Air Force base. Hmm.

And he's been putting in applications through the different websites. And when I seen him doing all that, I decided that, okay, he gets a check from the disability from the va. If I'm gonna be. You know what I mean? Having him take care of my kids and drive me around, I might as well be contributing to things as [00:35:00] well.

So I started working 'cause he was already taking me back and forth to get my medicine every day. He didn't just start driving. He didn't start driving me to work until just recently

Detective: read about that. I mean, you make him seem like he's, he's Mr. Wonderful.

Danake: That's why this is so mind boggling to me right now.

You understand what I'm saying? Like this is just mind boggling. Like, it really makes me feel like, what a, a, like I feel like he was an actor, you know what I mean? And like this little fucking fairytale of a movie for the last six months where it was like he was just encouraging me, encouraging my kids, wanting us to do good, wanting us to do great.

I'm gonna help you with whatever you need. I'm here for you. I got your back. Like everything that I was looking for, but it was like. You know what I mean? Like tit for tat. You know, you're, we're gonna start an argument not,

Detective: I mean,

Danake: you know, you're gonna say something about my kids. I'm gonna say something about

Detective: your kids.

Do you see [00:36:00] what you're doing? You're telling us that he has all this. Every time we just tell you to gen generally describe him. You're talking about, oh, he's great. He does this. He encourages me. He doesn't do anything. He's not controlling. But then when we start nitpicking it, well, what about this? Well, yeah, he does do that.

But yeah, well, he does do that. But there's a reason for this. There's a reason for that.

Andrea: According to a CPS report made about a month after Danica and John started dating, Danica was on a maintenance dose of 65 milligrams of methadone a day using stimulants like MDMA and meth while on methadone, put Danica at risk for cardiac issues, delayed overdose, a reaction that can take effect hours after use, and other serious physical side effects.

The combination is also known to compromise judgment, affect impulse control, and impact memory formation, even though a user can appear outwardly normal and functional. Her father, Larry, had been down the long road of addiction with Danica and was consistently concerned about his daughter's drug use, and he also had some concerns about her new boyfriend.

Larry: But I think [00:37:00] that one of the thing that things that John and Danica had between them about the kids. Was John provided. He, he, he corrected them. And that's why I say I've seen John, I, I've watched John with the kids too. I've never seen him make a physical move on him. I'm pretty sure he knew better than that around me, but he would many times be lecturing them like they were adults.

There's been so many times I want to go out there and say, John, you're talking to a 3-year-old, not a, not a 20-year-old. But that's all that, I mean, that's, that's as far as it went.

Detective: Do the kids like John?

Larry: Not really. And truth truthfully was the one I was worried about because he is a handful. He's the one that had the black eye and the scrape that I called child services on. I was watching really close and I was also watching 'cause she's a girl. Mm-hmm. Not that I'm insinuating anything, but just because she's a girl.

Detective: I get it. [00:38:00]

Larry: I will say this, the last week or week or two. I have noticed that when John came in the house, he would go in the other room and I've called him a couple times looking around the corner. Adam, that's just the truth.

Andrea: Larry was concerned enough about the children's safety and wellbeing to report Danica and John to CPS in August of 2015.

About a month into their relationship, one of Danica's kids had ended up with an eye injury, which Danica and John told the CPI investigator was the result of the sibling's roughhousing with a whiffle ball bat. The intake report notes concerns that the children were left unsupervised while they were at John's house and that they were often dirty and wore the same clothes for days on end.

It notes the suspicious injury and concerns that Danica's history of drug use was affecting her behavior. This report also notes that Danica was arrested in front of her children for the third time that same month after she was caught driving with a suspended license. The CPS report was closed [00:39:00] with negative findings for maltreatment, but a later review by the Manatee County Sheriff's Office found that the investigation quote lacked a thorough assessment of the family and the impacts the family dynamics had on child safety.

The CPS investigator did an attempt to speak to any collateral witnesses other than Larry who'd made the report, and Danica and John, who were of course, the subject of the investigation. No attempts were made to corroborate the story of Danica's son's eye injury and resolve the conflicting accounts of how it happened.

The Sheriff's Office report on this investigation noted that it should have been elevated to the child protection team. The CPI investigator's original report dismissed the concerns saying that the grandfather was just trying to get custody of the kids. This investigator decided independently as a non-medical professional that the child's injuries were consistent with the story.

John and Danica told and did not follow up on unreturned phone calls from a school nurse and guidance counselor. Danica also refused to take a drug screen during this [00:40:00] investigation, and she was on criminal probation at the time. The report notes that her last random drug screen, which had come back clean, had been seven months earlier.

And no background screening had been conducted of John to confirm whether he was a protective caregiver. The CPI, Kayla Cipher and her supervisor, Stephanie Metcalf Clark, were found to be in neglect of their duty for their actions in this case.

Act 3

Andrea: Over a series of interviews with the police, Danica's convictions about John's character begin to waiver.

Detective: Oh, now he turned. Now it turns out, obviously I don't know him that well, lets you buy drugs. He drives you to buy drugs. He does drugs himself. Now we're coming off that pedestal.

He's, he likes, he, he battered his ex-wife.

Danake: If he heard you say that you would fucking,

Detective: he would what?

Danake: Just, he's very verbal. [00:41:00] John.

Detective: He would sit there with his arm crossed and be verbal. I mean,

Danake: no, what's that gonna do? He would sit here and give you stat statistics and publish, you know. Tests and everything else about why marijuana is not a drug.

Detective: But

Danake: that's how John is. John. John thinks he's smart. John thinks he knows everything, John, you know what I mean? Like John, John likes to pass his knowledge on. He likes to explain things to people. That's why likes him so much is at the stage where it's like a question about anything and everything. And John will sit there and explain.

Any question asks. John will sit there and explain every little bit to him, every to the best of his ability. He will explain it. I told you the other night that he had all kinds of issues. As a child.

Detective: As a child, I'm talking about his life keeping apartment. I

Danake: don't know what his life is here. I've known him for five months.

Detective: You knew him well enough to leave your kids. We want you to,

Danake: yes, I think he did it. I think he's capable of it. I don't know that, I don't know him that well. [00:42:00] Obviously I don't, he's never shown any signs of being that type of person in front of me.

Detective: You say that then your mother says something completely different.

Danake: My mom don't know him. My mom has been around him 20 times

Detective: and and she says she's seen enough to be able to know, and she's only been with him 20 times.

You even got to the point in your relationship, you talked about your relationship with him, and at a certain point you said that the fairytale kind of ended and you kind of knew, but you had your plan, you had your plan coming up, and you know what?

There's nothing wrong with that, but obviously that fairy tale ended. Something started to happen to make that, to change. You know, something had to change.

Danake: I don't know.

Detective: We need you to, somebody passed to speak up

Danake: for maybe, I don't know how emotional he is. He never showed any emotion to me.

Detective: Never. How was he, was he the quiet type of guy?

Yes. Or just like, [00:43:00] you know, what the hell? You know, or,

Danake: I mean, he expressed verbally, you know, and it, they were like five minutes, you know what I mean? Five minutes of him going, oh, I don't like it. I don't think it's right. And then it would be over.

Detective: What did he just walk away? Slam the door, slam a door or something and just go, walk away.

Clear his head.

What if he can't walk away? He has your kids. He can't walk away. He's stuck in the room with them.

Danake: I don't know. I've never been with him in that situation.

Andrea: Danica is not the most reliable narrator of this story for a variety of reasons, and there were certainly some issues with her capacity to parent safely that predated John, such as her substance abuse and her four intakes to CPS, all of which were screened out.

Suffice it to say that this was a pretty tense situation even before John and his 3-year-old daughter joined into the mix. It's frustrating that there wasn't more done to make sure these kids were safe despite the myriad risks. [00:44:00] For most of the time they were together. Both Danica and John were unemployed, and so usually home together with the kids.

But on December 10th, 2015, Danica was hired for a three day temp job at an assisted living facility. On her second day at work, John dropped her off and returned home with Nolan and the other kids.

John: Nolan was teething and sick. So I, I was taking pictures, sending it to her, and I'm like, you know, I, he's getting, he's getting a little bit worse.

What should I, you know, um, where's the medicine? And, uh, she didn't respond. I, initially, I put hi, I put him down to lay for a nap, and, uh, and I were laying down in the other bed opposite of him, and I heard him make a weird noise. So I got up and I go and I look over at him and he's laying there and his back is kind of arched and I'm like, oh, sh you know [00:45:00] what's going on here?

And, uh, this doesn't look good basically. And, uh, so I take a picture of it, I send it to Danica and I inform her that, uh, I think he might have had, you know, a fit or a seizure. 'cause her, her other son X has. Fits and seizures all the time. So I let her know, you know, I was like, Hey, you know, this is what's going on.

Um, you know, what do you want me to do? And she was just like, basically said, just, uh, monitor him. If he gets any worse, if anything else happens, you know, take him to the, take him to the doctor or the hospital. If not, uh, when I see him, when I, when you pick me up from work, I'll determine from there I'm like, good to go and no worries.

Freaking, so I monitored him. I said, I found, I found the medicine. I gave him some, he seemed to be getting better. Um, all that happened around noon-ish, I believe. And then, um, so then around 5, 4 35 I left with, uh, [00:46:00] Nolan. And I don't know if any other kids were with me, but, um, I know at least those two were.

And I went and picked up, uh, Danica from work. She took Nolan, she examined them. She was like, okay, he's just sick and, you know, and, uh, you know, teething and everything else like that. Nothing, nothing outta the ordinary, nothing to worry about or anything like that. We go back to Larry's house. I'm in the back of Danica's Room, Danica's next to me with Nolan, and Larry comes in and Danica and Nolan walk over to Larry.

Larry picks up Nolan and, um, and we con conversate, uh, about, about, uh, stuff that, you know, was going on with Nolan about how he was ill and everything like that. And then, um, Larry goes and takes him and puts him in the other room and he's going to sleep. And then we come back and we discuss about what's gonna happen for the night, about, uh, where Nolan's gonna stay and all the other kids and everything like [00:47:00] that.

And we decide that all the kids are gonna stay with Larry except for Nolan. And we get back, I make dinner, I think, and uh. Danica gives, uh, Nolan a bottle of milk, and she goes and puts him down in our bed. And apparently about a half hour or so after he finished the bottle, he threw, he threw up. So she went and took him and put him in the sink.

Basically was able to examine him, look him over, see you know, if anything was going on with him or anything like that. And, uh, she thought that, you know, he was just, he was just ill. And I cleaned up and everything like that. And, uh, got the bed ready and then she put him down in the pack and play and, uh, gave him a bottle of water.

Uh, we went to bed, I don't even know what time that night. Uh, we got up early the next morning. Uh, that would be Saturday. And, uh, apparently [00:48:00] as it says and from Danica's report, and in Sally Smith's report even says this, that Nolan. Reached up to her, took two steps towards her and, uh, you know, was happy to see her in the morning, and then she picked him up.

We, uh, she put him in the, she got him ready, fed him breakfast or whatever, like, gave him a bottle or did whatever. We, uh, we ended up at Larry's at about 7:00 AM ish. And, um, we're getting out of the car. I go and get Nolan, he had fallen asleep. When I wake him up, he starts crying a little and uh, Larry comes out and gets Nolan and takes him inside and puts him in the bedroom.

Danica left for work and she asked me to stay because I was gonna take to her mother at noon that day. Danica was like, Hey, can you please stay? My dad just had knee surgery, you know, and all four kids is gonna be a little too much for him to handle. And I was like, yeah, sure, no problem. I'll stay [00:49:00] till noon.

And, uh, and I'm outside playing with all the other kids and X, and he has Nolan in, in the bedroom. He comes out and he asked me if, um, if I have, uh, Nolan's sippy cup. And I'm like, I mean, I thought there would be one inside or so. I looked in the car and um, I couldn't find one. So he ends up going over to his other daughter's house.

At, um, which she lives right across the street. He goes to her house, gets the sippy cup, and Gatorade comes back and gives it to Nolan. And then apparently from his account, after he gives that to Nolan, Nolan, uh, seems better and is doing, you know, is he's, he's looking good and, and, uh, and uh, so Larry comes out and starts cooking breakfast, I guess.

And. I guess he tells, he tells, I, I know he told me that he was cooking, he was gonna cook breakfast, and uh, he's in there cooking and then all of a sudden he starts [00:50:00] yelling, you know, you can't let a kid get this sick that you gotta take him to a doctor or a hospital or something like that. And, uh, he and I, I, I'm in Danica's room at the time and I get up and I go over and I'm like, you know, I'm like, Larry, what's going on?

And he's holding Nolan. And I could just see that there is something catastrophically wrong at this point. And I'm like, basically in my mind like, what in the fuck is going on here? And I'm like, Larry, what's going on? And he's like, we gotta call 9 1 1 man

Preview

Larry: County 9 1 1. What's the address of the emergency?

I've got a baby. That's Roy sick. Here he is coming in and outta consciousness.

Andrea: That's next time on. Nobody Should believe me.

Credits

Andrea: Nobody should believe me is executive produced, written, and hosted by me. Andrea Dunlop, our co-executive producer is Mariah. Our editor is Greta Strom [00:51:00] Quist story editing by Nicole Hill, research and fact checking by Erin Ajai. Additional research by Jess v Randall Mixing and Engineering by Robin Edgar.

Our production manager is Nola Kamus. Music from Blue dot Sessions sounds snap and slipstream.